The dragon and the army Hello, Sorry for not writing in German, but it will take too much time and contain too many mistakes if I tried. However, I can read well, which means that I can follow the debate on this site. It is a long time since the last contribution in this thread, but all the same I will try to revive the subject Arminius-Siegfried with an original contribution: I refer to the Old Norse variation of the Edda and Volsunga saga, and even to the Thidreks saga, where young Siegfried/Sigurd's exploits are referred to in more detail. One of the main parts of the story is his fight with the dragon. This has been discussed several times in this thread, and the dragon has been equaled with the train of Varus’ legions, when they were marching through the Teutoberger Forest. This is – one may argue – a speculative argument. However, it is plausible that the booty after the battle was rather huge, which may again be equaled to the dragon Fafnir’s hoard – the Niflung treasure. Both due to the inherent mechanisms of oral storytelling and the fact that the Roman Empire expired some centuries later, the reference to the Roman legions may have evaporated from the narrative, and only the dragon – as something fearful – remained. However, this does not explain how the dragon entered the tale in the first place. The idea of an image of the legions marching seen as a dragon is not too convincing. This is the point where my “contribution” enters the arena: http://www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm As anyone easily can confirm, there is a link between the roman army and the dragon gestalt. “The Draco was adopted first into the Roman cavalry during the 2nd century AD, possibly with the introduction of Sarmatian cavalry into the Roman army. Arrian, who was writing c. 137 AD, described it as a Scythian (he most probably meant Sarmatian) invention which was adopted by Roman cavalry” and “It is not documented when exactly the draco was adopted as a normal standard for all troop types. However, sources mention the draco being used with the infantry. The Historia Augusta mentions that the mother of Severus (193-211 AD) dreamt of a purple snake before his birth, something very alike what we later hear of the Imperial standard. But since this source was probably compiled later, we can't be sure this has any bearing on a dating. We are on more solid ground with the entry of the reign of Gallienus (253-268 AD), when legionary troops are said to have paraded with a dracon amongst the standards of the legionsand the troops of Aurelianus (270-5 AD) also had draconarii amongst the standard-bearers. This may lead us to conclude that the infantry began using dracos during the late 3rd c. On the Arch of Galerius, which was built before 311 AD to commemorate Galerius' war against Persia in 290 AD, several dracos can be seen to his left and right, carried by infantry as well as cavalry.” Admittedly, the dragon standard was not the standard of Varus and his legions, they had the eagle as the legion standard. However, there is no reason to assume that an oral storytelling tradition did not adjust when the roman army a little more than a century later started to use the dragon as standard. This remained the standard until the fall of the empire. When the empire was gone, the army was not anything to fear, either – and the oral tradition had to adjust again: This time only the image of the dragon may have survived. This is definitely not a proof of anything. However, I find that this line of reasoning may explain in a better way than anything else how Sigurd happened to have to go up against a dragon – when Arminius were up against the legions of the roman army.